Scientology - Through the Door

Interviews

Monday, 12th July, 2004 10:22:36pm

Name or Alias: Ex-SO
Training and/or processing level: Grades
Org or location: US
Time involved in the Church of Scientology: 27 years Sea Org
Recommended Website - http://
1. How did you first become acquainted with the Church of Scientology?
Went to a college lecture. The visiting lecturer listed out about 10 new age spiritual groups he recommended that students STAY AWAY from. I checked them all out, called them all on the phone, and Scn was the easiest to get into, on an immediate basis. All the other groups were too small-time in my town, or they only met Thursday's in the evening. Because the local Scn org is 24/7, I called, and was talked into coming in right away. I was a book reader, read alot of other practise books, and was immediately impressed with the great number of LRH books. The OEC was out at that time, and I leafed through several OEC volumes, noticing the orderliness of the org board, the chronological sequence of policy, and even after browsing several PLs in the OEC Volumes, I picked up that Hubbard revised policy as the years progressed. From the OEC Volumes, I immediately grasped that the staff of the org had an extensive administrative body of issues to follow. In the first hour in the org reception, I browsed about a dozen books, reading the table of contents, and searching for indexes, which I was disappointed to find a lack of in the Scn books in general. I respected non-fiction books which are properly indexed and contain bibliographies, which are a sign that the writer is not so self-centered that he credits no one else for his findings. I brushed this off, or rationalized that Hubbard obviously made a conscious decision to position his views all by themselves, without contiunally crediting where he derived his ideas. I admit, and realize now, I should have left, and never returned. But the enthusiasm of the staff handling me, as a complete walkin, the GO guy gave me an okay. But not before asking me if I was a reporter (as I was so interestedly checking all of LRH's books, including the Management Series). This GO person's question put me off. I respected (and alsways have, despite LRH's views to the contrary) reporters. Not all reporters are the same. I was a weekly reader of the NY Times, and NY Review of Books, and a handful of other intellectual magazines. It was childishly simplistic, to imply all journalists are only controlled by their editors, etc. I implication from the GO guy was that newspapers and journalists had been giving Scn a hard time. I being completely open-minded, and judging Scn only on the basis of the few minutes of contact I had had with the Receptionist, Reg, Tech Sec, I had decided these people were (to use Scn terminology) uptone fine individuals. So, I went forward, took my OCA test. I dismissed the eval as BS (being polite not to voice my opinion). I was there to explore the data in Scn, and I already wanted to find out from whichever new-age spiritual group I could (I am and have always been completely open-minded, in the negative PTS A-J HCO Policy Letter sense). If Scn could get me exterior, and able to float around the universe, without my body, then HEY, LET'S GO!! I'm aboard. I was a walkin, and quickly saw within 20 minutes of browsing the reception area, checking out the Bridge, that Scn offered up the cutting edge of spiritual abilities, mainly exteriorization. Creation of Human Ability, with the 'Be Three Feet Behind Your Head', command, and then Route 1, (or is it Route 2?), the process that directs you to fly all over the universe, obviously completely free from your body, as an eternal, immortal pure spiritual being. That was evident with 1/2 hour of walking in the door of the org. That's what kept me in all the years I was in the church. Other religions, and spiritual groups offer the same spiritual state. Only in 1998 (or 1997), when I was trying to route out of the S.O. (on the RPF at that time, as might be expected), did I happen to read in an Encyclopedia Britanica that was on the shelf in in the RPF theory course room, an article that blew me totally away. It has been known about for thousands of years, by religious people, and scholars, that MANY give their lives to the dedicated long route of spiritual work towards causative exteriorization, (basically the L's of Scientology, exterior with 360 degree full perception), and per the Britanica, very very few truly make it, and those that do, their experience is fleeting, it is not a long continuous blissful 360 degree floating, controlled floating lightbulb experience. It's a momentary experience. At that moment, my 20 plus year spiritual quest burst like a bubble. Had I read that article while in College, and before I walked into the Scn Org, I would never have walked in. Or else I would have demanded (I am too polite, I would ask, and let them produce the statistics, and testimonies), to convince me of the 360 degree exteriorization experience, etc. It is not there to be found. And in 1997-98 after reading this article, reflecting on my years of Sea Org duty, the wins, and information I'd seen firsthand, the amount of false attests by others reading their exteriorization experiences, the rationalizing, the lack of honestly attaining what LRH promised could be attained at Flag, that to me is why I could not continue. Scn is rigged not to evaluate other's experiences, and exteriorization, being a personal auditing win, is also not to be questioned without serious repercussions for the person who feels they have 'exteriorized'. I met no one in my 27 years who could and was exterior with 360 perception for more than a few minutes. I wasn't and isn't a state to be obtained and maintained, as I had expected. If Scn can and does produce this state, and even if they do it slopily, and only a few times, then I think that's a good thing. But I came in the end to believe exteriorization is basically an hallucination. I've slowly reverted to being an agnostic, and am edging towards being an athiest. I am open to man being a spirit, and being able to exteriorize. But to me, the proof is in the pudding. Meaning, in my 27 years, this one didn't exteriorize like I imagined I would if I truly were a glowing lightbulb of spiritual beingness, able to separate from my body. It didn't happen. So, the Britanica article coincides now with what I have observed to be true for me. Scn to me, lives or dies on delivering its tech, producing spiritual states like exteriorization, or complete certainty of bieng a spirit, not a body. Or else it is just like other unconvincing religions that have inhabited earth for thousands of years. I have nothing against Scn's right to be a religion. Were they to deliver what I observed them promising to deliver when I first walked into the org, I would praise them more. That they try or claim to be able to produce spiritual results, is fine by me. This is no sham. There are at least thousands of people in Scn who will claim they have had spiritual gains. So they only complaint I have, in my case, is per Keeping Scientology Working, I got no results along the main line I wished to acquire results. I never exteriorized with any perception, left alone half-perception, etc. I don't see newspapers flooding us with the news of people en-masse exteriorizing, leaving their bodies, floating around as spiritual beings. You hear more about Out Of The Body Experiences, happening to non-Scientologists compared to Scientologists. Well anyways.
I give Scn the benfit of the doubt, since people on this planet have been believing man is a spirit and can occassionally pop out of his head. That's the main reason to me Scn is proof against any charge of it NOT being a religion. But the truth of Scn or any religion I now believe is more in line with the article I read in the Encyclopedia Britanica, I mentioned above.


2. What initially appealed to you about scientology?
I answered this. Spiritual release from your body, being able to float around the universe as covered in Creation of Human Ability, the Route 1 or Route 2 procedure, where you are sent by your auditor as an exteriorized thetan to the planets, and all over the universe.

3. Were there problems in your life that you thought scientology would address?
I wanted to exteriorize, and fly out into the universe and explore the cosmos, free of my body.

4. Did you see, experience, or hear about things that didn't seem right while you were in the Church of Scientology? What were they, and what convinced you to set aside your feelings?
I have spent easily 3-400 hours reading all the complaints of the whiners and bitchers and moaners who got ripped off by Scn. I myself as a public would NEVER allow some nitwit reg, no matter what f-ing org they were from, reg me for more money than I wanted to pay. I was a skinflint before Scn and have been all my life. I NEVER buy on credit. I never got overregged because I would NEVER allow it. Most Regs and Scn staff I considered far dumber than me. My battle was finally toppling LRH in my mind. I finally realized he was NOT the sanest guy on the planet, even though I earlier pretty much convinced myslef he was.
I could detail for hours living conditions, abuses, but who cares. It is all relative. I would gladly experience all the abuses, compared to growing up as a starving baby in Somalia, Ethiopia, etc. The only thing I hated was being locked up, when I had blow thoughts. I hated being locked up. I hated being 'under watch'. The procedures the church initiates for persons who are 'blowy' I could not tolerate. For that reason alone, I could not stay in the S.O. When those procedures were applied to me, I had my most upsetting periods and hateful feelings of revenge spring to light. I rightly target the church rules and policies, which Hubbard himself would NEVER ever tolerate himself. Imagine LRH being locked up, had he expressed a doubt about Scn. Imagine someone locking Ron up, or having people watch that he didn't blow. Ron initiated rules and policies which ultimately cause more harm in some instances, than the overall good they are supposed to. The complaints on this site and the other anti-Scn sites are the ramifications of Hubbard's rules and policies that reacted badly on people's lives. Scn can change those policies, and possibly many decades from now, they may. If they keep bumbling along at their current rate of growth, I doubt they will change these policies. It will take some new leadership, who are thoroughly familiar with all of Hubbard rules, to honestly make some needed changes in the rules that have been causing the blowups in the lives of the people who are pissed with their Scn experience. I am only moderately pissed with my overall experience. It could have been worse. Imagine being imprisoned in North Vietnam as a US soldier. Imagine being in Iraq today, a captured US soldier. Nothing compares. There are far worse conditions all over the planet. People suffer far more in other subjects. The complaints I've read against Scn, while almost all valid, I know as a former lifetime staffer (S.O member), that most are Reg f-ups, staff f-ups, all sorts of off-policy actions. I've seen policies misapplied. I've seen very high up senior guys do outrageously wrong things, and outrageously right things too. I saw one RPFer blow. No one could recover him. I saw a senior RTC guy handle the blown RPFer in 15 minutes (that's what the blown RPFer told me when I asked him later what happened to him). So there are extremes. People ain't perfect, not all of Hubbards policies are perfect. Hopefully the really bad policies will get deep-sized, and less debris or messed up lives will occur. But the basic spiritual game, or exteriorizing people (if this is really possible, I'm open-minded both ways still, but I haven't experienced it yet for myself, so I opted out of Scn), is a valid life pursuit, and Scn church has a right to pursue it. Otherwise we'd have to legislate against religion, like Russia ddid under communism. That's my two cents about the matter.


5. Why did you choose to stay in the Church of Scientology?
Hoping someday, I'd achieve 360 degree exteriorization, full perception, the whole nine yards. It is guaranteed ont he L's per the quote that is periodically printed in the FSO 'Source' Magazine. Scn is a pretty straightforward religion if you keep the bridge in mind, and realize on the L's, people are supposed to get blown out of their heads, and get total certainty as spiritual beings. Who cares about the f-ing money details. If it is f-ing true that all humanity are really spirtual beings, trapped by considerations thinking themselves as meat bodies, etc., then even though I believe in the meat-body theory now, if we are imortal spirits capable of disengaging and causatively floating free, that would be a good thing. So hope of the truth of that claim. And the fact that Scn is not the first spiritual activity to claim and strive for that spiritual state. Anyone with half a brain has heard of astral-traveling, and if they've heard of that, then they know guys in India, and that area have been trying to do that, and apparently have been doing it to some extent for quite some time before Scn. So Scn to me was just a new-age religion, like Ekenkar (not sure I spelled Ekenkar right, sorry), or 'Silva Mind Control', or any of the other new age spiritual BS groups, that claim to give you the ability to exteriorize. Like I said above, I was impressed with the policy layout for the organization, the extensive year by year work, the books all written for the average joe on the street. Looked like Hubbard was trying to cut through all the scholarly BS of the past and deliver the spiritual goods as fast and as best he could. Over my years of Sea Org duty, that was my continuing rationalization. But like Hubbard says in one policy, to make sure the Reg reads the PC wins, or else the Reg will think he's stealing form the public (parishoners) and that Scn is a fraud, unless the Reg hears the wins of the pcs. Well I didn't hear enough of the mainline wins that Scn is supposed to produce. 360 exteriorization, with full perception. It just isn't happening. And those that I heard claim it, sounded a little strained and forced in their claim of exactly what they'd experienced. Too many omitted details of what one would expect to have happen, if the goods could really be delivered on this point. Also I was married, and my spouses were just as dedicated, and we worked 24/7 and didn't really have time to doubt. Also the fact that if you rose high, and then expressed doubts, you got sacked to the lower echelons, and in a few minutes, could lose all status and position that had taken you years to acquire. So no being 'disaffected', not ever expressing 'doubts' about being in the Sea Org, was critical to upward movement, near the top of the church units. Like the 'Chinese fingers' using to hold a group of wires used by electricians, once you learned the rules to move up, you compromise and never go backwards. Not until the bubble bursts, as did for me.

6. Were you staff or public? If staff, was it at a mission or an org? Were you ever in the Sea Org or OSA? Which unit? If not on staff, did you ever volunteer to 'help out'?
I went straight from public, on an auditing internship, to the TTC on the FSO, then Flag Bu, then on and on, up quite a way. I knew (at least as aquaintances), most of the 'bad' hats from 1979 onwards.

7. Why did you leave the Church of Scientology? Was there a "final straw"?
Long answer. 1) KSW #1, no results personally -- re: myself exteriorizing, which was my personal goal, and the crux of religion, immortality, the big questions about life. Scn had written answers, but so does everyone else. I didn't ever exteriorize, and had thousands of hours of auditing, thousands and thousands (over 130 pc folders, and only a Grades PC). I am a nice guy, knew I wasn't SP, but I must be SP with no 'case' gain. Only thing that helped me not go completely mad-dog SP against the church was the Encyclopedia Brit article, which justified that the true high spiritual states are only experienced by a very few. Not anyone I know can exteriorize 360 degrees and float around at will. I know of no one personally who can. I realized it was pie in the sky, and it is fine to offer pie in the sky. But Scn doesn't deliver the pie in the sky. It has a right to offer it, and I hope some make it. I just ain't going for it, and that's that. If the next edition of the 'What Is Scientology' book comes out with a big chapter on the statistics of church members one-for-one going exterior with full perception, like an assembly line, flawlessly, etc. Then I might be interested. I doubt I will afford the services, the prices are too high. Something will have to give in the centuries to come. Maybe like Nepal, where the government uses the taxes to support the local Tebetan Bhuddist churchs, in the countries around the world, if Scn really churns out exteriorized people, then govts might fund it, and everyone could do the bridge. But Scn does not seem to be delivering the spiritual goods, not in volume, because all the petty criticism would fall to the floor, if people could routinely be popped out of their heads, and learn to operate exterior, as is promised in Scn. Who cares about $ if you can leave your body, and cruise the whole physical universe. That's the issue over my leaving the church. I didn't see this product being produced. I want to enjoy the rest of my life as a regular person, with normal hours, no more 24/7 (which is the Sea Org style, which I have no disagreement with, more power to them). But they got to deliver the goods, like Hubbard says in KSW #1. That's all that counts.

8. Do you think the Church of Scientology needs to change some of its practices? If so, what should be changed? How did those practices affect your life?
Yes. I need to be extensively interviewed by someone, as I have voluminous answers. Many nit-picky points, and truly my answers would better be sent to the Sea Org, and let them consider them. I have no reason to smear the church. Given their manpower and the intelligence of their manpower (talking about the SO that is), those guys are in a unique type of universe, working together daily in huge groups and units, smaller units, all working together, bonding in their unique ways, all their inter-org games and competitions, their hard ass-busting work on hundreds of programs and projects (I'm thinking about the HGB, FLO, CLO levels here), there is tremendous comraderie, which only if you have put in the years, don't the dirty hard all-nighters, done all the imaginary 'kicking-ass', etc., all the BS wrong targeting, HE & R, all the crap, and gotten through it, the guys who are still with the Sea Org, have put up with alot of crap, and are proud of it. Each SO day, they glow due to their accomplishments. The guys who nit-pick the SO, but who had a few good years, if they remember the good times, they were there. Can't deny them.
Of course the f-ed-up unjust Comm Evs, the lying KRs that were personally motivated by low toned revenge, all that crap is enough to really stick and hurt some people, and they say screw it all, and leave. It happens. LRH in the ESTO tapes even gets down on Execs to not blow their juniors away. All the bad (or most of the bad) stuff Hubbard somewhere in PLs or tapes says DON'T DO THAT BAD STUFF. But staff do it anyways. And Hubbard did the bad stuff too. He blew people's heads off incorrectly. The debris from the mistakes made by the Scn staff and failing to deliver the spiritual goods, and of course failing to correct both of these things, is what kicks Scn in the teeth, in the form of the whiners (me included), on this and the other anti - Scn sites. No one HAS to buy (donate for) Scn services. No one HAS to stay on Scn lifetime staff. No one HAS to sign any of the totalitarian legal (give up all your legal rights) documents the church may ask you to sign at moments when they are worried you might run out and talk to the media. Just say no, and walk away. Get a different life.
If I had done that, I wouldn't be answering this stupid questionaire, and I wouldn't have logged onto this site, to listen to the other whiners.
I am not as worse off as if I had some real trauma like being a captured soldier in Viet Nam, or Iraq.
Only thing I hated was being locked up against my will when I wanted to 'blow' (leave right then, before my Security Checking -- required spiritual counseling). I hated being locked up. I hated when a couple of other RPFers physically prevented me from blowing, one pushing OEC Volume 1 into my chest and telling me over and over 'stop committing suppressive acts'. I knew they were seriously alter-ising Hubbard's policy, but I also realized I'd be further making matters worse, if I got into a physical battle, and headed for the police to obtain my release from that RPF at that moment. I knew the guys in the SO above these two RPFers would have to suffer through the bad BR because of these two, at that moment, jerk RPFers. The policy on handling those wanting to leave is quite clear. I wrote up extensively what should be done to the appropriate terminals in the church, and I expect at some point in the future, if not already by now (since this incident in 1997, was 7 years ago), the procedure might be different. That is my only beef. I know there are persons whose job it is int he church to address my complaint, and I made it known to them. I did my report years later, and no physical lockups ever occurred or no physical detainment ever occurred. There is a specific policy that rules against any physical detainment. The Introspection Rundown rule, I had the introspection rundown. I had one of the biggest release moments in all my auditing (I laughed for 2 minutes uncontrolledly) on one of the commands from that auditing (spirtual counselling) rundown. But I wasn't locked up, I wasn't that whacked out, so I did normal physical work on the RPF at that time. I really went into Scn willingly, I knew it was a new age religion, knew within 20 minutes that the media gave Scn sh-t, but I wanted the exteriorization ability. I got no real long lasting qualms. I hated signing the legal waivers, saying I couldn't voice my opinion. Particularly when my opinions are basically a pretty good defense of the church, better than most of the persons who made me sign waivers not to say anything. What the hell, why try to shut me up. I can voice my support for any religion if it's getting the product. And if any church gets the product, proves people they are free from their bodies, well that church, that group has my support. That's the big test. Then all the little problems like prices, stupid rules, the dumb rules and prices that are barriers, well I agree they should be handled, accordingly.


9. If the items you listed in the previous question were changed, would you consider rejoining or staying in the Church of Scientology? If so, why?
Prices way too high. I can't afford getting to the L's. I won't be paying my Freeloader debt even. I think that's a rip off. As many years as I put in, I don't owe Scn a dime, and that alone will keep me out. Also, auditing skill is really dependent on the auditor digging what I say. I have only been audited by about 4 people, all SO members, who I thought even duplicated what I say. Most auditors fell asleep on me, they couldn't follow me. So most auditing is wasted. If a whole bunch of intelligent people, like modern trendy, basically enlightened smart college educated people became auditors,a nd prices came way down (like 10 % of my income), and if like I said above, a new version of the 'What Is Scientology' came out that had all the statistics on 360 exteriorization, and causative full OT, floating free at will thetan activity, in volume, and I read about all this, and it was the rage across the planet, then of course I would get back into Scn. I think we all would. If we could learn how to causatively exit as spirits, our bodies, and travel anywhere in the physical universe at will, what do you think? We'd all go for it. It would have to be true, it would have to be being delivered. So in the end it comes back to Keeping Scientology Working #1 policy letter, that says the church's troubles always come form the church not delivering what it promises, just not delivering the goods. Deliver the goods, and within the public's $ means, and Scn will be the bee's knees.

10. Any additional comments you would like to make?
In favor of Scn, there is a lot of common sense knowledge, which if a normal public person doesn't have any other way to get common sense knowledge, then the basic Scn books, Problems of Work, have some useful tips. Even though I am not a Scientologist anymore, if someone really pushes me, I will direct them to Scn books, and tell them there is common sense data in it. It depends on the person. If someone will listen to my whole ordeall, I tell them in summary form what I said above, and that's my reason for not sticking with the Sea Org and Scn. From the Scn viewpoint, I basically was not dedicated enough. Yea, possibly, but I want to enjoy the rest of my life now, and am happy to do that.

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