Scientology - Through the Door

Interviews

Saturday, 24th March, 2012 09:02:52pm

Name or Alias: Kathy McBride aka Kathy Mace
Training and/or processing level: HQS, Book 1 Auditor and Seminar Supervisor Trained, Course Supervisor Course, Full Hat FSM, Misc staff admin Hat courses, All TR courses. Audited to Clear and up part way through OT Preps, HRD.
Org or location: LAF, Valley Mission, CCNY, CCI, NYO, AOLA, ASHO - worked as a fill-in course sup at various missions and orgs.
Time involved in the Church of Scientology: About 20 years - 1977-1997
Recommended Website - ESMB, Reachingforthetippingpoint.net, androvillans.wordpress.com
1. How did you first become acquainted with the Church of Scientology?
Through my ex-husband, the late Paul Mace. He took me to a seminar @ Geltman Mission in NYC and we got kicked out by a woman named Arlyn Hobel of Hobel Mission in upstate NY. I had no idea what was going on. I was very angry at how they treated him. Please understand that originally, I did not know he was a dedicated scientologist or a life long actor until after we married. I didn't even know that we were married by a Scientology trained and licensed minister, a great guy named John Bragin, who I later found out had once been in the Sea Org, on the Apollo. (Apparently he was quietly out of the church at that time. I only knew John through Paul and working with him on public access TV video projects he was working on. Scientology was NEVER discussed.) All I knew about Scientology and Paul's involvement at that point of the seminar was that Gene and Arlyn Hobel 'were not doing Scientology right', that these mission holders were not letting him see his daughter. That his ex-wife was in fear of Arlyn and looking emotionally fragile.

After being kicked out of that seminar, I talked him into taking his ex-wife to family court for custody of their child because they were being mentally abused and financially scammed by the mission holders. We also claimed that the child was not being raised in the religion properly. It was agree for us to have custody and the court ordered the mother to have a living situation independent of the mission before she could have the child back. This worked and eventually the child went back to the mother, who had since remarried and was starting services at NYO.

Little did I know that taking her to court, and publicly stating the that the Hobel's were the equivalent of 'squirrels' while in still in good standing, that these were considered suppressive acts. In the meantime, nothing was said. It was found, however, that Gene Hobel had audited the mom on OT III and Arlyn had done the same with the child, having her run out BTs to try and correct what Arlyn considered her 'evil' nature. This occurred when she was age 5 and under. We found that Arlyn was charging the Mom $50 per hour for babysitting of the child while they had lived there and charged so because she considered it ethics handlings. The 'handlings' were such that no decent human being would ever treat a child this way.

In 1983, both Paul and the Mother died in bizarre accidents within three months of each other while doing RPEC to correct the insane ethics ( while blaming it on both as they pulled it in and it must be something you did last life time - as RPEC goes) This left the child a parentless orphan at age 11.

The child blamed Pam Bennet of NYF for the chronic calls and forcing her mother to come into the org during a blizzard type storm when she did not want to go in. My blog goes nt further details on this.

Suffice to say, I believed the child needed help and the only help I believed in at the time was Scientology. We found out by DOP interview that she'd been audited on OT III and BTs when she was younger. I tried to convince her to come to stay with me and go to AOLA. This was met with only partial success. At one point she did not want any more and I got upset with her, trying to convince her she NEEDED the auditing. It never happened. She now hates my guts and who can blame her? I have to live with this the rest of my life but my guilt and pain about this is noting compared to what she went through, how I contributed to that and how Scientology robbed her of so much.

I and others, including Paul's last wife Sara, would spend years getting the Hobel's declared for all this, against much resistance at Int Management level, all while good mission holders were being financially raped and destroyed by the church upon Int Management orders. This hypocrisy, and the effects of all that happened to the child and the parents, and my insane devotion to forwarding church dogma, would play a major part in my eventually leaving Scientology.

So, my first encounter with an org and classroom came in late 1977, soon after temporarily moving to Los Angeles for Paul to do a movie, I became bored with nothing to do so he set me up to do a small course at LA Day org. I had no idea that after reading and completing the Dianetics- The Evolution of a Science book checksheet, that I would become a HAS - Hubbard Apprentice Scientologist as the certificate stated. Still, I has no idea what Scientology was and did not consider myself a scientologist. It helped that the org, being dead of staff and public, did not even try to re-sign me for any services.

6 months later, while driving down Ventura Blvd with Paul and our roommate Gemma Picerni, I made the mistake of pointing out the Scientology sign on what was the Valley Mission building and saying "Lets go check it out!" That was when I really got acquainted with Scientology - or the version of it as run by Scientology Coordinated Services aka SCS, ( see the important story # 7 by Cheryl Sola about her travails as staff at this mission.)


2. What initially appealed to you about scientology?
Initially, nothing. Paul never explained what it was and what little I knew of it made it was not of interest to me.

3. Were there problems in your life that you thought scientology would address?
There was nothing on my mind in particular. I was not seeking anything. I was young, and happy as far as I could see, but then we all decided to take the personality test.

Soon Gemma and I were on the communications course ( the SCS pack - with Blinkless TRs). Please note that if you ever want to brainwash someone, put them on the lower and upper indoc Trs. Blinkless is even worse. The only fun part was the bullbaiting with Gemma. We laughed so hard and for so many hours, it was as if we were stoned.

Once through that course and the Hard TRs, I did a lot of auditing as a PC. What ever my ruin was on that test, I never thought of it again because from the day I started the 'bridge', I was no longer who I used to be. I was a C/Sed PC doing whatever I was told to do by the auditor.


4. Did you see, experience, or hear about things that didn't seem right while you were in the Church of Scientology? What were they, and what convinced you to set aside your feelings?
I saw so much in my years in. Everything above and more. I wrote KRs like so many did, only to see them read by blind eyes but not on everything. One never mentioned the outpoints in the orgs, the children not being cared for or loved by attendant parents. The rats at ASHO down by the purif. The lack of pay, and toilet paper. The starving Cl IV and later CL V org staff members, many of whom did not pay child support. Still, I see that I'd become a KSW zealot. So much happened to my life, my family, my health and mental well being along the way and yet I kept pushing these incidents to the side and kept plugging for LRH and the Church.

There is more particulars which I observed and I will try to write about them on my blog as come to mind http://kathymace.blogspot.com


5. Why did you choose to stay in the Church of Scientology?
I met many good people in Scientology. I loved people. I felt a sense of obligation to stay, even long after I'd lost so much and endure too much. Lastly, after realizing how crazy it all was, I stayed out of fear.

6. Were you staff or public? If staff, was it at a mission or an org? Were you ever in the Sea Org or OSA? Which unit? If not on staff, did you ever volunteer to 'help out'?
I was staff, and public and volunteer. My earlier years as a public were spent in California, at Valley, CCI, and at some of the PAC orgs. After my marriage ended, aided in part by the church, I moved over to the Manor Hotel and started a new life. I worked at LAF in HCO and worked for Karen Black as her personal assistant during the day. That's another crazy story to be told someday.

Since Paul and I used to sing and perform in clubs in NY, I began doing freelance singing, running jam sessions at CCI, volunteering with Special Ops as a Volunteer Minister singing with others from CCI at area nursing homes, group auditing these wonderful old people. I loved that the most, having been raised to do volunteer work. My days living at the Manor and being around CC before they renovated are quite memorable. For those who were there, thy will know what I mean.

Sadly the Special Ops project ended when Miscavige ripped Diana Hubbard out of B-6 and shut the program down. For a while there and after, I was a Honorary LRH PRO. I also did recovery missions for CMO at CCI. I regret ever having helped CMO to get John Travolta back in Scientology when he'd left with disagreements with management in the early 80s. I won't say in detail what I know and found for them at that time, but I can tell you that the church & Int staff seemed to have a history of doing unethical things to try and control him into staying. When he complained the first time and left the church, he finally demanded something be done when they tried to recover him. What I found from that earlier time was that Int pretended to hold an official com ev on one person in particular involved, while instead, meeting and jotting down notes on a piece of paper like at a coffee clotch, letting the culprit go unpunished - only for this person to do more against Travolta - ( and others I have since found out). This was behind what I was brought in to help resolve.

But since this culprit was now declared ( rightfully so IMHO ) for something else, CMO could now indicate all the wrongs the person did to him in the past that lead to the current upsets. That was it. He was made happy again. If only he knew the truth. This was in the early 80s, before he married Kelly. God only knows what the church has done to keep him from leaving since but with Kelly there, I doubt he'll ever leave.

Before working for Karen, I worked seasonally for Greenburg and Jackson CPAs. I learned much about accounting and taxes there. I went back to working for them after leaving that job, as I lasted only 5 months or so. At G&J I started off as a receptionist, then doing the company bookkeeping and then doing the math calculations on tax returns, working mostly with Jim Jackson. I learned how to do taxes. This would play a big role in my life and in some of the the volunteer work I would do for the church over the next 15 years. I also worked sometimes at New York George's as a waitress to make ends meet while FSMing, too.

At one point, when International Finance Police were running around PAC area, I was forced into volunteering for them on a legal flap related to unpaid wages and employee taxes at Bridge Pubs. This happened after being held hostage and repeatedly gangbang style sec checked for asking a question at a meeting they had called. I did this project for them at Bridge so that Int Finance would not raid Greenburg and Jackson's company, as this was what they were doing once the mission holders were stripped of their missions.

This indentured servitude was done out of loyalty and fear. I spent months trying to find records, coordinating with the church hired attorney, correcting financial information and form errors; getting books in order, finding and getting rid of children and aliens working there illegally. Very stressful. I was all alone on this project. Despite the attorney being my 'senior terminal' I was watched every day by Clive Dowdell of the Finance Police, who got on my butt everyday demanding to get it all done so the SP government influence could get off Bridges production lines.

I hated that guy for so long. He actually tried to get me fingered as the WHY for stats decline but, after many months, an queries of the original, the BOI ruled otherwise and all I got was an instruct on a policy I'd never read before. Fact is, I worked my butt off for NO PAY to help 'save' Bridge Pubs from the the IRS and federal and state departments of labor from more audits. The attorney, who I don't think ever did any work for them again,. was a wonderful guy and stood up for me with In Finance, knowing I did a good job.

As you can guess, as soon as the gov't agencies left, Bridge went right back to using minors and illegal aliens in their sweat shop making meters. I gave up trying to fix Bridge and moved on to the next misadventure in Scientology.

I eventually moved back to NY. I was burned out. I opened my own freelance business and did projects for OSA when not on course or in session at NYF. My health deteriorated. The alternative medicine people were not fixing my problems. I feared any nonscientologist doctor. Its so ingrained when you are a member. Its the group insanity. Eventually I got fixed after winding up in the hospital and being put on a special diet for life. It would take several years to recoup my health after that.

Now, in the early in the 80s I had trained to be a course sup and periodically filled in as a paid one for different orgs and missions on both coasts. I usually did this so the sups could become Flag interned. In one case I did this at CCNY so Robbie Krescanko could do NOTS at Flag. ( He had lied to me to get me to do it. I was stuck there with no money for months in a very 'squirrel' mission. That was another nightmare lived while volunteering.)

When I was a scientologist, I loved being a course supervisor and especially loved helping make auditors. ( This was before I realized that I was training people to not think independently - but that's another story.)

Being so gung ho, I was eventually recruited for the Sea Org to become the Keeper of Tech EUS. This was before I knew what was wrong with me medically. I was sent to PAC for the EPF but while there I found I was not qualified. I was also not doing well physically. I was chronically anemic. In retrospect, not being qualed was the best thing that ever happened to me, although I don't think I would have lasted long in the Sea Org anyway.

I gave up on the idea of joining the SO, finally got my medical issue diagnosed and while getting my heath back in order, I became a fully hatted FSM, body routing new people into NYF ( as I had done sometimes at CCI when I lived in LA), selling DMSMH in the mornings at the 42nd St subway with my then boyfriend, Cory Schwartzchild of NYF. Eventually I stopped volunteering and concentrated on building up my tax and accounting business so I could buy more auditing and OT levels. I settled in Astoria, Queens part of NYC that I came to love. It felt like a world away from NY org. I started prospering for my own benefit, finally.


7. Why did you leave the Church of Scientology? Was there a "final straw"?
If you open your mouth about things that should not be, and certain people do not want to hear what you have to say, you are fair game.

At least I was.

I realized some people were going to try and get me to shut up, no matter how often it came up in session over the years that something had to be done to correct the illegal sec checks I and others had been put through. I wanted CL XII auditor Norm Herring to be held accountable for this 'squirreling'.

In the early 90s I was on my OT preps and it came up again, me asking for correction and it being ignored again. I started to really look at NYO and Bruce Campion, the DoP acting like a reg every time the org wanted more money. A year before Anna Balash had shown me this nearly full closet full of undone staff crams in the hall closet, hoping I could appreciate the need for everyone to join staff. I got so pissed off at him for regging me again one day that I looked again, knowing this was Bruce's responsibility. The closet had even more crams than before! I left the org and wrote a KR and what I got back was a 'good roads, fair weather' letter from Bruce, asking to come and talk about the problem, obviously having to do something to get me back in the org or face problems himself.

Subsequently, other things happened that lead to me being a target. Now I was being told I could not go OT. I had a kind of epiphany that day. I realized I could not become what "they" wanted me to become. I could no longer be a part of this group if I wanted to live with myself. I never felt so alone. I actually found myself praying to God - since he was all I had. I decided I wanted a way out without losing connections to the people I cared about. This this was not to be. I then planned my escape from any connection to Scientology.

It took a few years to distance myself from scientologist friends, clients and an extended family member still in, but I did it because I feared I would lose my heart if I stayed in, and my eternity if I spoke out further. I worried that these people would get in trouble if I told them I was was no longer interested in the church and they were still associated with me.

I moved out of state and eventually made it so no one could find me. I began my recovery from scientology. My immediate family finally figured out I was out but never asked because they were always afraid of discussing it with me. Many years passed before I could talk with them about it. I feared the dreaded SP label. It weighed on me like a rock at the time. Of course, once one is truly out, you come to realize that the label is nothing but words and perhaps sent on a piece of goldenrod. Back then, I naively let the threat of the label rule me.

A little side note here, now that I'm on a roll with this thing. Several years ago, and much to my surprise, I received a call on my unlisted phone number (since changed BTW )from Jim Jackson, my old boss and friend of sorts.

Jim was apparently on call-in and wanted me to go to the nearest org ( which is like 4 hrs away from where I live). I froze and realized that I had to decide right there and then to face a scientologist with the truth of who I now am. I spoke cautiously. I liked Jim and felt sorry for him having to do call-in, knowing how he hates these things. There was some kind of event. I said I couldn't go. He then wanted me then to call a person there, to hook up with the org. I gently declined. I took a deep breath and explained what happened with the sec check issue, the auditing, the church and my decision to leave. He said things had changed. I said " I changed, too". I found peace outside Scientology, I belonged to a christian church now and was happy. I told him I could relate to Christ, who did not force me to make decisions against my will. He laughed and said " Oh. you mean Ron?" I couldn't believe he said that but then remembered back and saw that this should not have surprised me at all, knowing what I know now. He realized I didn't laugh or agree with him. I said I was really no longer a scientologist but I appreciated him thinking of me. He then asked me to reconsider, gave me the name of the contact at the org and said " I paid someone $50 to find you " and we both laughed because, well, Jim is not a spender and in this case, he lost the bluff. And that was it.

Days go by and I decide to face my fears and look up scientology on the internet. Google search has been my friend since :)

While I'm at it, if I may I'd like to leave a message for Jim.

If you are reading this, Jim, its time to face the truth. You hate the regging, you have not been on a service in years, you don't have to live a lie anymore and you don't have to fear you will lose everything if you lose all your scientology friends and acquaintances. You know as well as I do that you have friends who have left or are silently in disagreement with the church. We that are out will welcome you with open arms. Please reconsider :)



8. Do you think the Church of Scientology needs to change some of its practices? If so, what should be changed? How did those practices affect your life?
Well the most of it should just be chucked but for those who still want to pursue it (and I respect that as long as its outside the organized church). I say chuck the fake religion front, the Clear the planet stuff, and definitely the disconnection practices, the admin and ethics policies and see what becomes of the rest.

There is an cognitive dissonance that occurs when you are a scientologist that prevents one from thinking outside the confines of what the group think is.

There is also danger in playing with people's minds and any Book 1 auditor can tell you that. This is why there is little Book 1 auditing occurring to speak of.

There are some good things but it would probably be better if the whole thing were to be dismantled. Let whoever start their own thing in the field. These practices usually never get too far, as evidenced by the past defector-startups in the field.

Disconnection is Scientology's blackmail tool. I regret being a part of it. My family suffers because of it. Disconnection defies man's innate drive to need to feel and experience love for one another, no matter what.


9. If the items you listed in the previous question were changed, would you consider rejoining or staying in the Church of Scientology? If so, why?
No. I wasted many years devoting my self to this group, only to lose so much and to see others suffer for their devotion. No.

10. Any additional comments you would like to make?
There is so much to read on the internet about Scientology. I wish I had gotten the courage to look at what is there, sooner. Its like a breath of fresh air after losing ones breath to find truths and common realities because people are speaking their mind about their experiences. Its like the pink elephant is no longer in the room being ignored.

I hope any scientologists reading this will take the time to read all the experiences written on this site and all over the net. The church is dying. This is unavoidable. The internet and those that fill it with facts are killing it. So are the protests.

Lermanet.com was very helpful reading, as well as xenu.net. The forums, especially ESMB, are safe and helpful places to join or just lurk, as I have mainly done. I especially like keeping up with the posts at the Tipping Point forum because of my past interests in Div 6 activities. The post things to educate and expose what the front groups are doing now and alerting people to the dangers.

The church evolved in outreach areas over the years i a very covert manner. I worry about the tentacles reaching schools, governments, society. What I see at tippingpoint is that the church is doing is lying that these front groups are not Scientology when we know they are. They are tricking people into programs like Narconon, a dangerous program that has caused illness. Some people even died because of the program. And CCRH, well, I have learned a lot since getting out about the real mental health industry and this is a good place to stay informed on this, too.

I'm glad I can think for myself now, without the blinders on. We all gain when we look and evaluate things for ourselves. You can't do that in the church. Since Anonymous' Project Chanology came and shook things, I never knew how little freedom and respect for human rights exists in Scientology. The protests are a wonderful thing and anything that helps expose the bad in Scientology gets my respect to one degree or another.

I want to wish Through The Door a big Happy Anniversary . It took me a long time to come here and post my answers because the past is still not easy for me to recollect, I couldn't just put in my thoughts in the short form and some will rag me that it's totally too long but there was just so much in those 20 years, a lot I wish I'd never agreed to be a part of. But I was a part and I made it Through The Door and it was not as bad an experience as I thought it would be. Thank you, ethercat for all you do.



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